CWJJ Episode 67: M.G. Govia & Jason Crowe

Thursday, July 22- We’ve learned some important lessons during the pandemic. We found that there are ways to survive and thrive in a remote world. However, you can’t take your mental health for granted. This week, Jason Crowe and M.G. Govia join us to discuss this very thing and more.

Quick Links:

M.G. Govia on Linkedin
Jason Crowe on Linkedin

Episode Transcript

 [0:00] [music]

Jim Schauer:  [0:24] Good morning, everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of “Coffee with Jim & James.” I didn’t start off the episode by saying, “Let’s get ready to rumble,” because we have from the WWE, or is it the WWE, and the MMA…No, not really.

[0:43] But look at these guys being serious, James. Seriously, look at these…Look at M.G.

James Cross:  [0:47] I think…I think Jason rolled his sleeves up about twice since we’ve been on this call.

Jim:  [0:52] [laughs]

James:  [0:52] You know? I’m like, they just keep sneaking up.

M.G. Govia:  [0:55] Yeah. You can’t hide those guns for nothing.

Jim:  [0:57] Nice.

James:  [0:58] M.G.’s hair. We talked about M.G.’s hair for an hour and a half on the pre‑show for two days, because we missed out recording this yesterday due to my son playing Fortnite, I’m pretty sure.

[1:11] Blessed, as always, to be here with two awesome guests.

Jim:  [1:15] Absolutely.

James:  [1:15] Jason Crowe, who, for those that don’t remember ‑‑ and Jimmy, am I wrong on this ‑‑ was Jason Crowe our first guest ever?

Jim:  [1:27] He was numero uno, number one.

Jason:  [1:29] Yup.

James:  [1:30] No one can ever say that.

Jim:  [1:33] Yup.

Jason:  [1:34] An honor and a privilege.

Jim:  [1:36] Then M.G. was our backup.

[1:39] [laughter]

James:  [1:39] He was plan B, but luckily Jason showed up. Then we got M.G. on like six years later. It felt like six years later. I think he was probably episode 42 or something. If I nailed that, pure happenstance.

Jim:  [1:55] That’s awesome.

James:  [1:56] M.G., welcome back also.

M.G.:  [1:59] Again, just like last time, honor and privilege to be talking with you guys. I’m looking forward to our topics today.

James:  [2:05] You bet.

Jim:  [2:07] Let me just jump in a second, James, real quick. I’m gonna hand it over to you. We had a lot of fun in the pre‑show and it reminded me, you look at the picture of us right here. You’re thinking, “OK, we’re going to talk about 811. We’re going to talk about OGA, equipment, and all that.”

[2:25] What did we just do for literally the last 40 minutes? We just caught up.

James:  [2:29] I don’t even know. We can’t tell people half of what we talked about.

Jim:  [2:34] As friends, we just caught up, and that’s part of the industry. Every time Jason calls me, or I call him, it’s not about business at first. It’s, “How you doing? Are you safe? How’s how’s life?”

Jason:  [2:47] Family. Yeah.

Jim:  [2:48] Family, and then one of us, we both always say at the very end, “Love you, brother.” And we mean it. And we’re not embarrassed to say it. We’ll say it in public or whatever.

[2:56] And M.G. and I have a very special relationship. We’ll go into that later. But anyways…I’m kidding. But, uh…

M.G.:  [3:04] It’s growing and blossoming more and more every day.

Jim:  [3:06] It is. But think about it, guys. That’s how our industry works, is that we have friends out there and we have friends that we can rely on. Whether it’s personally or professionally, that’s the key to a lot of these things and that’s kind of our, our segue into today’s topic, I would say, for me.

[3:23] James, I’m going to pass it back over to you my brother.

James:  [3:26] Yeah. I hope I can do it justice because I swear we’ve tried to record this six times, so I’m just thinking about all the things that I said the last six times.

Jim:  [3:35] Yep.

James:  [3:36] But really, today, to sum it up in a nutshell is about motivation, I would sum it up as, and so all, all four of us, you know? No matter the platform, no matter what, and I’m going to use us as examples. I’m not making us holier‑than‑thou, I swear.

[3:53] But you know, we have influence in this world and all of us have chosen kind of this path of motivation, you know? Through acts, through servant leadership, you name it, right?

[4:04] But whatever it is, we’re out there. We’re very public in bringing people along and doing everything we can to lift each other up along the way.

[4:14] And it’s nothing foreign to our industry, you know? It’s…We’re not doing anything odd, I would say.

[4:22] But I wanted to kind of bring it into a discussion with us because for some people, you know…I’ve had a lot of discussions over the years, and leadership, and leading people, no matter where I was at, right? But about “Oh, you just had this God‑given talent,” to be positive and motivate people and things like that.

[4:41] I guess what I want to do is kind of pull the curtain back a little bit and help people to understand that it’s not a God‑given talent for me. I love people, all right? That part’s easier. 

[4:56] Let me pull how many books currently that are on my desk, [laughs] you know? Teaching me how to add all these things up, in all the different ways that you can, to try to make a difference, right?

[5:15] So it wasn’t something that I just wake up in the morning built for. There’s days that I wake up that, that, you know, I’m like, “Man, it’s going to be hard to record today.”

Jim:  [5:26] Yep.

James:  [5:27] How do I get my mind right?” And I struggle with the same things, whether it’s personal life, or work stuff, or anxiety and depression and things like that, that makes those times harder to put that face on and go to work. 

[5:43] But how…I guess asking the group, and each one of you have your own way, and it manifests that way. How do you make that choice every day? And why, right?

James:  [6:00] We can all very easily wake up every day, go sit down at a desk, you know, old school. Punch‑in, sit down at a desk and do our eight hours and go home.

[6:12] What makes you do the two before, the two after, to call the guy, you know, to bring them along, to help the person that you’re not getting paid for, to be that sort of a leader? What drives you, how you find it, and why? How’s that? Did I do it justice?

M.G.:  [6:29] Wow. Yeah. Let…If I may.

James:  [6:31] Of course.

M.G.:  [6:35] I’d like to go first on this one. 

[6:38] I was thinking about our topics and trying to get my mind in the right space to, like, really tackle this. And just like anything else in our lives, our relationships, our friendships, all this stuff, there’s a trial that happens.

[6:54] This relationship didn’t work, but I learned from that relationship that the next relationship will work. And I don’t know if anybody remembers their first ever job, but my first ever job lasted two weeks, and it’s because I’m a terrible employee. 

[7:09] And it’s easy for me to say that now, because I’m talking about the 16‑year‑old me, not 43‑year‑old me. 16‑year‑old me, when I was getting told that I was scooping ice cream incorrectly really couldn’t handle that. I was being told by like a 40‑year‑old man that I couldn’t do my job and it was ice cream scooping. My first job ever. 

[7:29] And I was like, “Forget this. Mom, they’re mean to me. I’m out of here.”

James:  [7:33] Yeah.

M.G.:  [7:34] Like, I don’t need this five dollars or whatever I was making. So I eventually just kept going from job to job to get money, and that was it. And money takes care of bills. You try to have a life and you keep going.

[7:49] And then all of a sudden, you fall into a job that…I’ve told you guys this before, if someone 10 years ago said, “Hey M.G., you’re going to get a job where you talk about digging all the time,” not in my top 10 dream jobs, you know? Just probably wasn’t going to happen.

[8:05] But you go into it and you take all the negatives that you’ve learned from all these previous jobs and opportunities that you had, and you go, “You know what? I’m not scooping ice cream. You know what? I don’t have someone over my shoulder who’s telling me how to do something so little.”

[8:20] And by the way, here’s what you are doing. You’re making an impact on the community. You’re saving lives. You’re educating those who are providing the services to your home. You’re like, there’s an immediate reward every single time I get the opportunity to speak in front of somebody. 

[8:39] That is like the beginning of it. It just…waking up and go, “Well, I’m not scooping ice cream.” I know it’s going to sound silly, but every morning when I wake up, I’m like, “I grew up,” and I’ve gotten to this point to where I go to work knowing that I have this influence. I have this impact. 

[8:57] I’m not going to regress from this obligation because if I’m not doing it, somebody else will. Somebody else needs to, so why not just me? Why not I just go do my job as best as I can. 

[9:10] And I have other ideas and points, but that’s where the beginning of it all is. I look at my past and figure out “Where did I come from?” and then “Where did this passion come from,” to go forward. And that’s kind of where I am right now.

James:  [9:23] That “remember where you started” kind of mindset, right?

M.G.:  [9:27] Yeah.

James:  [9:27] And forget why you started, you know? And shout‑out to the ice cream scoopers.

M.G.:  [9:33] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

James:  [9:34] Doing it right.

Jason:  [9:36] M.G., to reiterate what you said, you know, I think we all go through things in our lives, and as you mentioned, trials, and I think maybe a pre‑show thing. Things tapping, you know? 

[9:51] As I got to the industry 20‑some years ago, I worked for a large company, was able to climb the corporate ladder very quickly. Put forth a lot of time, a lot of energy, a lot of effort, but my purpose in that was self‑fulfilling.

[10:06] That was my goal. I wanted to make the money to pay the bills to provide for the family and all those things.

James:  [10:13] Yep.

Jason:  [10:13] And then things happen in our lives where we realize that it’s just not all about what we want, and there’s a greater sense of fulfillment in being able to help others. At least that’s with me. 

[10:25] And whether it’s, it’s battling our own internal demons, or a major health scare, or the loss of a loved one, or something that just causes the pivot in our mindset. 

[10:36] And I think James, you said something earlier. M.G., you said something. It’s all about your mindset. For me, it was finding that greater sense of purpose. And what I do, how I make my money is I sell equipment, right? 

[10:49] I sell equipment to locate lines and, you know, pipeline integrity and especially…That’s how I pay my bills, but how am I ultimately fulfilled as a person? It’s helping people to be safe. It’s helping people to be better. It’s helping people to work through whatever it is they’re working through, be brave, take those chances.

[11:15] At the end of the day, I pay my bills selling equipment. What truly fills my bucket, what truly makes my heart happy is seeing buddies like M.G. succeed, and James, and all that stuff. It doesn’t pay the bills, but that’s what truly makes me happy. To an extent, all of us have made that realization within ourselves.

Jim:  [11:37] James, let me jump into it, and I’ll answer it very quickly. It’s almost selfishly, but I’ll say it’s the thank yous. 

[11:44] Not that I’m looking for praise, but when somebody reaches out to me and they need help with something and I say, “I know a guy. Hold on,” and I connect them up or whatever the case and they say, “Hey, thanks. That really helps me,” it’s that thank you that drives me every day.

[12:00] We all know, the audience doesn’t know, but this morning I was doing to 14 different things. I came on the screen still bouncing off the wall.

[12:09] I just had to decompress, get into the groove with you guys, and you guys helped me. You recognized it and said, “How can we help you? What can you do differently?”

James:  [12:17] Jim said leave me alone.

M.G.:  [12:19] [laughs]

James:  [12:19] We told him to go on mute and take a walk, and we continued to talk about him.

Jim:  [12:24] For two minutes, and I like…

[12:26] [crosstalk]

Jim:  [12:26] talk about it, make fun of me.

James:  [12:27] It’s that observation and having your eyes wide open. It helps you.cI don’t know if you all have ever…I’m sorry, Jason.

Jason:  [12:36] I was saying, there’s a few good points I don’t want us to necessarily gloss over. One, having empathy, truly being empathetic and recognizing brother Jim’s struggling right now. Let’s take a time out and address it.

[12:50] Then, two, one of the things I struggle with is showing yourself grace to allow yourself to go take that two‑minute walk. It’s OK to shut off for a minute, take a deep breath.

James:  [13:02] I’ve learned more about grace this year than anything. You know what’s wild? I’ll tell you why. 

[13:09] I recently took over, well I’m over at HR as well. I pored through the handbook this year to really understand it. Are we saying the right things? Are we doing the right things? One of our core values that we say as an employee of Energy Worldnet is having grace.

[13:28] Seeing that in our own employee handbook, and you know how employee handbooks are. Sorry, HR friends, but you’re like, “OK, where do I sign? Where’s my vacation stuff?”

[13:42] [laughter]

James:  [13:42] Where’s the 401(k)? OK, we’re good.” That’s really the depth that we ever look at that thing.

[13:51] I started looking at it every time there was an incident where we weren’t giving grace to our own people across the department, within the department, wherever it was.

[14:02] When we used that as a chance to bring it up, it was almost like, “Do you all know this is in our handbook?” How wild is that? “Are you really giving people grace?” You’d stop, and you go, “Wow. Maybe I’m not.”

[14:17] Like you said, maybe I’m not giving myself grace, which is the hardest thing.

Jason:  [14:22] I agree.

James:  [14:23] It’s so hard.

Jason:  [14:24] Do you guys find that easy, where it’s easier to give others grace, but it’s much harder to give yourself that same grace?

James:  [14:31] I’m getting better, I think, because I make a lot more mistakes now that I’m older, so I have to give myself grace. [laughs]

Jason:  [14:37] Maybe you’re recognizing it.

Jim:  [14:39] That’s it right there, recognizing it in yourself. Sometimes it’s easier to see it in somebody else.

[14:47] Did you guys ever go through the stress things, where you’re in a classroom and they say, “OK, when you’re dealing with stress, breathe 10 times in, out,” do this stuff, and all that? That makes sense then. You want to know why? You’re not under stress.

[15:00] Then when you get under stress, do you remember that? It’s out the window until somebody says to you, “Take a deep breath, go for a walk, come back in five minutes.” Sometimes you need that interaction pointed inward, towards you.

James:  [15:17] That’s a good point. I’m going to go back. 

[15:22] M.G. said he wakes up and says, “You don’t have to scoop ice cream,” which is the weirdest thing I’ve heard all day.

[15:29] [laughter]

James:  [15:29] I get it now. It makes total sense. I have some. I used it this morning in one of our Slack channels. We were talking about big thinking and the whole goldfish idea, keeping a goldfish in a small bowl, it’ll stay small, so the big fish idea.

[15:50] I was talking about the Tim Burton movie “Big Fish.” Anyone ever watch that one? If not, watch it after this. It is filled with metaphors. It’s amazing.

[16:01] One of the things in there is, no spoilers here, there’s a witch in it. She has one bad eye, or a glass eye that she keeps covered up. When she flips it up, if you look into it, you see how you are going to die in your lifetime. You already see it, whether it’s three minutes from now or when you’re 67, next to your wife. It doesn’t matter.

[16:28] When you think about it, it’s just a thing that happens in the movie. Some of the people get so preoccupied with that thought that that’s how they live their life. They know how they’re going to go.

[16:42] Imagine that. You could see that. Any of us who have medical issues or anything like that, where does your head go immediately? You spend the next month freaking out about it. Imagine if you knew how you were going to go, how that could impact you.

[16:58] On the other side, you have a character that knows exactly how he’s going to go. In other words, he could go run out in the road right now in front of a car. He’s probably not going to go. He knows how he goes, so he lived his life to the max. He’s doing all the things because he knows, he saw exactly how it happens. It’s amazing.

[17:20] I almost wake up with that mindset, like “That’s not how I go.” I have a joke, I’m going to choke on my own spit. I already know. I choke three times a day. When I get old, this thing ain’t going to work as well. That’s how I’m going to go. I know it.

[17:35] I’ve used that joke all the time. Somebody would be like, “This project sucks, man. We’re worn out. We’re burned out.” I get it, man, but this ain’t how I go. Let’s go, and keep moving. That’s my ice cream scoop, M.G.

M.G.:  [17:54] It makes sense. Similar but different, which is one of my pet peeve phrases, but here I go using it. That and “let’s be honest.”

James:  [18:05] Let’s be honest.

M.G.:  [18:07] Because I lie a lot. It’s hard to tell when I’m telling the truth.

[18:09] [laughter]

M.G.:  [18:11] Those two are my pet peeves. I don’t know why I did that. That’s bonus for the listeners.

[18:15] Similar but different, two years ago I was going through some life, and I fell in love with this book called “The Struggle is the Way,” by Ryan Holiday. It’s about stoicism, applying stoicism to your life. One of the things that it talks about is living your life assuming that you’re gone tomorrow.

[18:42] If every decision you make is “Tomorrow I’m not going to be here, so today I’m going to make the best of it. I’m going to make the best impressions, I’m going to make the best friendships, I’m going to do the best I can so that way when I am gone,” there’s no regrets.

[18:58] And it’s this regret thing that I think a lot of us get hung up on. Like, when you’re like, “Man, today I went in and I got in front of that computer and I stared at that PowerPoint for about two hours before I typed anything. I did not make the best of that day.”

[19:17] But what happens is when you have this flip and you go, “You know what? Tomorrow, I’m gone.” Is that two hours going to make that big of a difference is? 

[19:28] Is this in the grand scheme of things what I’m going to be remembered for? Is everything that anybody is ever going to say about M.G. based on, “You know what? I remember that one day he missed out on two hours of productivity.” You know?

[19:42] Like, you just have this, like, flip and you go, “OK, I’m not guaranteed tomorrow. I’m gonna make the best of every day, what’s in front of me right now, and only worry about things I can control,” and it just starts making every decision just that much easier to make. 

[19:56] Because it’s not the overwhelming “How’s this going to affect me 10 years from now?” You’re like, “No, I can plan for some things, but I don’t have to assume it’s gonna happen.” So it makes a big difference. So I recommend that.

[20:10] And by the way, the title of the book is “The Obstacle is the Way.” I remember it now.

Jason:  [20:15] Obstacle, OK.

Jim:  [20:16] Yep.

James:  [20:16] I can confirm that. I just Googled it.

M.G.:  [20:15] Thank you for doing that.

Jason:  [20:20] That sounds like a good read. You know, it’s interesting you bring that up, M.G. I don’t even know if all you guys know this, but we talk about life experiences, or you said something, two years ago you picked up a book and it helped you realize that, “Hey, you know, right now is what’s most important.”

[20:36] You know, to allude to James’ movie reference, I had a life experience nearly 12 years ago, where I truly almost met my maker. 35 years old, came home, mowing the grass, got lightheaded. Long story short, I’m not just a nice guy, but I literally have the biggest heart in Eastern Oklahoma.

[20:58] Since then, I’ve got a device in my chest that’s a pacemaker defibrillator that’s got three wires to my heart. At 35 years old, facing your own mortality, it’s pretty jacked up. And James, like you said, you take a month or however long it takes you and you can, you know, play the pity party, and woe is me and all this and that. 

[21:23] At that exact time in my life, you know, it was July 31st, 12 years ago, six days after my 35th birthday. I had this incident that stopped me in my tracks. I said, “Dude, you’ve got to make some changes.” 

[21:37] A week later, my youngest daughter was born. So I come home on a Wednesday, I go in on a Friday, I come home on a Wednesday and I’m sitting outside on the back deck and I’m having a moment of spirituality, and this was a moment I figured, you know, it’s one of three things can happen. 

[21:56] It can either either destroy me. Well, I’ve got a daughter and I got another one on the way. That’s not really an option. I can let it define me. You know, I’m gonna base the rest of my decisions in my life off of this.

[22:09] Or I can let it drive me, help me understand, “OK Jason, you were so caught up in, you know, climbing the corporate ladder before. You were so caught up in trying to provide for your family and achieve this and achieve that. Wait a second, is that what’s really fulfilling to you? How are you spending your days now moving forward?”

[22:26] So that was a life experience much like your book, you know? Tomorrow is not promised. Go ahead, Jim.

Jim:  [22:33] Well, let me jump in on both you gentlemen because this is something that I’ve noticed. Over the last few years, unfortunately, in the oil and gas industry, we’ve lost a lot of people, right?

[22:45] And, you know, when we lose people, especially if we know them, like, “Wow. He was such a good blah, blah blah,” or, “She wonderful at this.” And at times, it’s kind of weird where I had, like, “OK, how do I want to be remembered?”

[22:59] And God willing, you know, I’m in this industry for another 20 years being that person that is making a difference. And I say to myself, “How do I want to be remembered?” Because they’re not gonna care what my shirt look like, if it was ironed, if, you know, my boots were shined or not shined. But, you know, what’s the impact that I’m making in it?

[23:17] And that’s what hits me, not every day, but a lot of times that I think about that. Some of the actions, you know, how can I help out M.G. with the 811 event coming up in August? What, can I do to make that better? How can I help Jason with Green Equipment do something to help whatever the case is? And James. Every day, you know, what can I do to help you, James? And vice versa. 

[23:39] Anyway, wanted to share that, because I don’t want to be morbid, but it’s like, you know, that’s something that could last a lot longer than we do. And I hope that that positive effect rolls onto somebody else that gets it, too, that says, “You know, in 50 years when I should pass on, I want to be like James, or M.G. or, or Jason, or Jim.”

Jason:  [24:01] What’s your legacy? That’s it.

Jim:  [24:04] Yeah. Yeah.

James:  [24:05] Yeah. I always use the term, you know…I’ve used it with my son, is kind of where it started, but that, you know, we do things for our last name around here, you know?

Jim:  [24:16] Yeah.

Jason:  [24:16] Yep.

James:  [24:16] It ain’t about you, right? I mean, it’s integrity and everything. It’s who’s on the back of your shoulder at the end of the day, right? And that seems to hit for him. 

[24:26] When you talked about books, M.G., A book kind of changed my path completely, too, and I want to give a shout out.

[24:36] For anybody who hasn’t heard the story, I won’t go big details, but when I left my past role and, and life, business life, it was really based on a book, which is called “The Happiness Advantage” by Shawn Achor. 

[24:53] If you look, he also has a TED Talk. He’s super funny. And so if you watch his TED Talk, just look for Happiness Advantage. It’s really simple. We’ll probably link it up in this.

[25:03] But you know, his idea was like what you said, a quick…the level‑up mindset that were instilled with when we’re kids, of make the good grades, get graduated, get in a good school, go get a good job, get a better job, level up, level up, and then you die. I mean, so you can retire. [laughs]

[25:27] That’s what’s instilled in us when we’re little. That’s what you’re supposed to do, go level up. It dumps it on its head and says, “Quit leveling up.” Go after happiness first and you’ll get those things, not go get those things and you’ll get happiness. It dumped everything on my head. 

[25:46] M.G., like you said, go find that job, go make that money, and then level up all the way through it. I stepped back.

[25:59] For years, I had wanted to design. I had designed, but I’d never leaned into it. I wanted to brand and do the things that I got excited to do, I found, that I seldom got to do.

[26:11] When I stepped away and leaned into it, I found there was a whole world there and people that were wowed, because I was doing what I loved, it was very apparent. I’ve continued to get to do that, which is, we are doing something that didn’t exist five years ago, right?

M.G.:  [26:28] [laughs] Right.

James:  [26:28] It didn’t exist a year ago, that they trust me, and wearing shirts and hats and where people trust you because, again, now I go. Let’s go. We’re wild, and we do what we think’s right.

[26:43] That book changed me. If you don’t know that book, grab it. It’s so good. Watch the TED talks with it.

[26:50] Let’s talk in that realm a little bit because this is a constant thing. It’s a deliberate action, is what I always tell people. It’s really easy. You can be one or the other. That’s the thing.

[27:02] This book, “The Power of a Positive Team,” another awesome book. You’ve got to use the energy either way, negative or positive. You make the choice, right?

Jim Schauer:  [27:14] Yep.

James:  [27:15] You have to do this, or you get to do this. It’s a change in a mindset and everything. That helped me a ton this year. That statement right there, not that I have to do something, but that I get to do something.

[27:29] For me, I gravitate to books and audiobooks and podcasts and stuff. Are there people, are there books, is there anything that you guys could share with everyone, with us today that keeps you moving forward in your journey and motivation and helping others and continuing that lapping out that we talk about?

M.G.:  [27:56] Mine’s a little different. I hope I don’t go too sideways right off the bat. Maybe I should have waited to go last. Whoever’s editing, you’re in charge of this.

James:  [28:08] No editing.

M.G.:  [28:09] No editing. Here we go.

James:  [28:11] We go live.

M.G.:  [28:10] I wasn’t excited that I get to scoop ice cream. I’m gonna use that one more time. I wasn’t excited that I get to do that. But I am excited that I get to help others stay safe, and like I said earlier. And so also, there’s like this passion for what I do. 

[28:29] So, there is the past to get me to where I am. I’m grateful for how I’ve evolved, where I came from, and where I am now. And now I get to do my job. I get to share safe excavation and damage prevention and get out there in front of all these people.

[28:47] But instead of the…There’s plenty of podcasts and plenty of books that we can list, but honestly, it’s the real life interaction that I get, like the three of you. Like, when I go to conferences, like when we get those just random emails. “Hey, you’re the 811 guy, right? I have this question.”

[29:08] You become sharper when you’re around those who are also in the industry.

James:  [29:14] Iron sharpens iron, right?

M.G.:  [29:15] There you go. And so that is where my growth has really come from. Two years ago when I was a noob in my position and the torch was handed to me and there was a generational change that happened also in the industry.

[29:32] Where we went from, you know, “Good old boy lunch‑and‑learns” to “Hey, let’s get on a computer and talk over the Internet.” Like there was all this change and I embraced it.

[29:44] I looked at that as a challenge, but to learn it…and this is the biggest advice I can give anybody, find people who are smarter than you.

Jim:  [29:54] Yes.

M.G.:  [29:54] They’re out there. They’re out there.

James:  [29:56] That’s what we’re all doing, right? I mean…

M.G.:  [29:58] Right.

Jason:  [29:58] You know, M.G….I’m sorry, go ahead.

M.G.:  [30:01] Oh no, you’re spot on. That’s where I was, though.

Jason:  [30:06] I agree with you completely. I mean, up until, I don’t know, three, four years ago, I’d probably read, I don’t know, two, three books in my life. I mean, I joke with my 16‑year‑old that Dad’s on the reading level of an orangutan, you know. And she reads books for pleasure.

[30:23] I found that a lot of personal development books are something I can get my head around. I can’t paint a picture reading a Harry Potter book. It’s just…It’s just not in my wheelhouse. However, if I pick up a Tim Grover or even a Byron King, something along those lines, or the Mark book that you recommended, M.G.

M.G.:  [30:41] Mark Manson, yeah.

Jason:  [30:42] Mark Manson, thank you. I can get my head around that, but it’s more so around a community, you know? It’s probably like…

James:  [30:49] Can’t say that name on this show, brother.

Jason:  [30:52] Don’t say it?

M.G.:  [30:54] Yeah, yeah…

James:  [30:54] Go ahead do not…We’re not gonna say it.

Jason:  [30:58] OK, and so…

M.G.:  [30:59] Look up Mark Manson books. You’ll be fine

Jason:  [30:58] Books. Anyhow, so…

James:  [30:59] Find their work.

Jason:  [31:00] But the sense of community around that, you know. A couple of years ago, I wasn’t on any kind of real social media. I utilized LinkedIn as my business platform. 

[31:12] And then a good buddy of ours, who’s the communications director for the OGA, you said, “Jason, you’re really into all this personal development stuff now. I’ve seen this change in you and this mindset thing. You know, why don’t you get on social media? The Bookface and all that.”

[31:27] Like, nah. That’s too much to manage. I don’t want to mess with all that. Maybe I’m a little bit more like Jimmy like that at times, but he’s…we’ll help you get on Instagram, you know, it’ll feed the other ones and sounds efficient.

[31:37] So, I don’t post a whole lot, but I’ve been able to find a sense of community in meeting other people, like‑minded people, just in keeping myself accountable.

[31:48] You know, there’s certain daily habits I try and keep up with. One is being active. You know, I like to eat. I got to work out that, as I get older to try and keep from putting the pounds on. That’s me. So I work out every day…

James:  [32:02] Is that what we’re supposed to be doing? Is that, was that the game plan? Was that in the user manual?

Jason:  [32:08] No, it’s, it’s, it’s good for me. I mean, whatever works for you is works for you, but up in my story and I put some positive comment. And, and it’s often for me to keep pushing myself to help, help me, you know, stay on the right track, you know, to help me keep the right mindset.

[32:25] And by the grace of God, whatever, I mean, it’s resonated with other people and, and there’s a community around that.

[32:35] And not that I have a big following by any stretch of the ruler but, you know, I had to step away for a period of about a month, a month and a half. And I wasn’t on social media at all and, and I come back and there’s messages from people from Scotland I’ve never met before in my life.

[32:49] I’ve got a buddy of mine out of Redding, California who’s…I’ve never met, who’s going to fly out and pay a visit over a long weekend just because we’ve been able to connect over some like‑minded things.

[33:01] Most of the conversations that we all have isn’t really about business, right? Whether it’s M.G. or Jimmy, we don’t know when we talk…

James:  [33:08] Don’t tell, don’t tell our bosses, but no.”

Jim:  [33:10] You know, yeah.

Jason:  [33:11] It does help move things forward, but I mean we move things over by supporting each other and, you know, helping keep our mindsets right. So…

James:  [33:20] We are our brothers keepers.

Jason:  [33:22] Absolutely, absolutely.

James:  [33:24] of lost children, for sure.

Jason:  [33:27] Blessed is he, right? That’s the… [laughs]

James:  [33:29] Don’t make me do it in front of the whole Earth, because I will, but I won’t. I won’t do it.

Jason:  [33:32] There you go. There you go. But…

Jim:  [33:35] James, before we bring it home, I’m just going to jump in because I was sitting here, listening to the gentleman and trying to…

[33:41] You know, I don’t read a lot. Like it only gives me a lot of grief, “Why don’t you read this. Why don’t you read that?” You’ve been doing the same thing. You buy me books all the time, and I don’t read them.

[33:50] But I think about, you know, “What do I do?” But, you know, one thing and we all know this and it’s not a secret, the industry knows that I’m celebrating my 10 years sober this July 10th.

[33:59] [applause]

Jason:  [33:59] Fantastic. Fantastic.

Jim:  [33:59] But I keep, you know…That’s in my head, that goes through every day. Like, think back to, you know, 11 years ago, 12 years ago and how great the last 10 years have been and how they’re going to be even better, and such like that.

[34:16] And those are some of the little inner strengths, and thank God for all all the opportunities that He has given me. So anyways, just wanted to share that.

James:  [34:26] That’s awesome.

Jason:  [34:27] Absolutely. Well, guys, you know, we could, we could probably talk on this for hours.

Jason:  [34:33] We probably should.

James:  [34:34] We should plan this more often.

Jason:  [34:36] We could.

Jim:  [34:37] Yeah.

James:  [34:38] And I really wanted to bring this topic up because, I’ll be honest, the last couple of weeks for me, I don’t feel like I’ve been even my normal self, you know, on the level maybe that I normally are able to do, right? [laughs]

[35:00] And so, I think in some people’s mind that when they hit those spots, or when they’re not their best self, that that’s an easy time to, like, pull back and backslide a little bit, maybe question everything. 

[35:14] And so part of this, I’m going to be honest too. Let’s be honest, M.G.

M.G.:  [35:20] [laughs]

James:  [35:20] That this right here, like what all of us have said, was kind of selfish for me too. Like this is my motivation. Getting on things like this and hashing out some of this and hearing. And look, I’m gonna go grab all these books we’re talking about, right?

[35:39] I’m gonna go listen to a few more things, and I’m going to be more active. These things will tell us. I’m going to go back on there and do more than what I’m doing, because I have no doubt people in comments, engagement‑wise, they know what we’re saying. And somebody else out there is probably struggling through some things.

Jim:  [35:57] Absolutely.

James:  [35:57] And again, Jimmy, our goal with this, this podcast is really getting out there and being able to put our hands on it. There’s no great way to say that, is there? Being able to touch as many people as possible with this message, you know, and impact them. And so, I believe we’re doing it, and you too…

Jim:  [36:20] I know we are.

James:  [36:21] Our guests today, that’s why you all are here joining us in this passage. Thanks all of you.

M.G.:  [36:27] Yeah, I’m still looking forward to it. In the pre‑show when we’re talking, one of the things I talked about is when I’m having the those days where I’m just like, “Man, I just don’t feel like this is working. This is failing on me,” or whatever the case may be.

[36:43] I’m a data person also. So there’s the emotional ride that I can have and like Jim said, hey, I can embrace that thank you and hold onto that thank you for about a week. I can get that speaker high.

[37:00] And when I’m done talking and 50 people are like, “Hey thanks for explaining that to us and blah, blah, blah,” and all those things, but they’re fleeting. They leave almost immediately.

[37:08] And so I look at my productivity based on my calendar, so that helps. But then, I look at what I’ve done through the data and I go, “OK, this is how many people I talked to last month. This is my outreach and all this other stuff.”

[37:25] Looking forward, I can see, if I did this and I knew personally I went through these waves during that month and I still was able to do that, if I just keep those waves on a minimum or I’m that same dude again one more month in a row and I’m still having this effect, I’m doing OK.

[37:44] I like to see the data and the data also helps drive my future plans. I know that’s unusual take, especially in what we do, because everything is so instant. “Hey, I told you this. I hope you stay safe, blah, blah, blah.”

[38:01] Then, like I said, it just dissipates, but I have numbers. I may not know who that person was or whatever six months from now, but I can look back on it. That’s another thing. Find people smarter than you, network with them, get sharper and then put some data on it.

[38:22] Say, “Hey, what have I accomplished? What have I done?” Because if you can figure out what you’ve accomplished, that just means, “Cool. I can do more, I can do better than what I’ve already done. That was back when I didn’t know anything.” [laughs]

[38:33] I’m entitled to see what this does when this gets into the Internet and our friends and followers and enemies sees this thing. [laughs] 

[38:44] Hey, throw down your book ideas, throw down your ideas to sharpen us. We are going to be open to it. This will probably be the first podcast I ever bookmark to go check on weekly for like the next year, just to see what’s going on with our engagement.

James:  [38:57] You’re that one person?

M.G.:  [39:00] Yes.

James:  [39:00] We’ll send you a box. I thought it was Jason.

Jason:  [39:05] I’m not a data person. I’m not. I am not. I’m not the fine details kind of guy. That’s just not me. I’m the opposite. 

[39:14] I agree with you. Find people that are smarter than you. I can appreciate the data. Look back at what you’ve accomplished and help remind yourself of what you’re capable of.

[39:27] For me, when my mind sets off, when I’m feeling derailed, I turn back to my brothers, my community. That’s why I reach out to Jimmy. “Hey man, I’m struggling.” I encourage you, if you are, reach out. Find someone that you’re close to that understands it.

James:  [39:45] How to reach out to Jim, we’ll put his number.

[39:50] No, I was going to make one statement, guys, and I’m going to put on my HR hat real quick. Jimmy knows exactly what I’m about to say. For anybody who is struggling, it’s about motivation, but don’t suffer in silence.

[40:04] As Jason said, and we’ve all said, reach out. You reach out to us, but also know that there’s resources. Go out there, talk to somebody. There’s a lot of resources out there these days and I’d be more than happy to hook everybody up. [laughs] That’s my job now.

[40:22] We’ve got to be comfortable talking about mental health. We went through a hell of a year this past year. Again, you’ve got to give yourself enough grace to get there and then to act on it. I hope everybody that needs to hear that, hears that. There isn’t a stigma with…

Jason:  [40:43] No there is not.

James:  [40:44] with our industry and others so please reach out. Don’t suffer in…

Jason:  [40:49] It’s reiterating, we all have downtimes. We all do. We all struggle with things. We all do.

Jim:  [40:54] We’re human.

Jason:  [40:55] Make your time out. Reach out to someone or look at the data or read the book, whatever it is that’s going to help you get re‑centered and get back on the rails and do what you got to do. No matter what you’re into.

James:  [41:12] Jason, we have a joke internally in Energy Worldnet. You want to know what it is? “If I ever get fired, I want Jason Crowe to tell me.”

Jason:  [41:21] Well, I will be blessed to share my tone in voice. Unfortunately, I’d hate to let anybody go. You’re such a great organization, but…

James:  [41:31] Thank you.

Jason:  [41:32] Repo a car or what was it? If I had to repo your car and then you wanted…

James:  [41:37] Whatever. If there’s any bad news, I need Jason on the line.

Jason:  [41:42] There you go.

Jim:  [41:43] M.G., Jason, thank you so much for joining us.

Jason:  [41:44] Grateful for you, brothers. Grateful.

Jim:  [41:45] As everybody can pretty much see, this was a friendship thing and it’s growing. If you go to gas associations or safety associations, you’ll see more and more topics on these as opposed to five years ago just about products. We’re now talking about soft skills and I’ll just…

Jason:  [42:07] What an amazing time, right? Amazing.

Jim:  [42:09] Yap. It’s wonderful.

Jason:  [42:10] Everybody talks about all the technology stuff going on, but man, have you ever seen human be more important than right now?

Jim:  [42:18] And I’ll volunteer each and every one of us if the audience members have connected some way with any of us, probably, the easiest way is, if you’re on LinkedIn now or go to the LinkedIn platform. That’s probably the easiest way to get our personal information to connect with us. 

[42:34] We’d be happy to have a discussion. Otherwise, we really appreciate your time. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us today.

[42:40] We know it was quite a journey to get to this taping today, recording or whatever we call it these days, but it’s almost in the can, as I like to say.

Jason:  [42:52] That works.

Jim:  [42:53] Anyways, thank you, audience, for joining us. It’s been great. As I always say, every time, everybody please have a great week and stay safe. Until next time at Coffee with Jim & James, see you soon. Take care.

James:  [43:06] Bye everyone.

Jason:  [43:07] Thanks guys.

[43:08] [music]