Thursday, June 10- We are thankful for this week’s episode, 20+ year Navy Vet, Jon A. Smith joins us from Hydromax USA. Jon and James “geek out” on BIG data, how we capture it and use it to take our industry to a new level. Great guest. Great episode!
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Episode Transcript
Jim Schauer: [0:24] Good morning, everyone. Welcome to this riveting and exciting episode of “Coffee with Jim & James.” James, as usual, I have to bring you into my world. And I don’t know if I’ve ever told you how I got started in the energy business. [0:00]
James Cross: [0:39] I don’t think so. [0:00]
Jim: [0:40] Let’s go back to… [0:00]
James: [0:41] I’d love to hear that… [0:00]
Jim: [0:43] Let, yeah, let’s go back decades. I saw a movie called, ready for this, “Top Gun,” and I thought, “You know what? This is going to be me.” [0:00] [0:50] So as, you know, as me, I get in my Chevy Caprice Classic. And I drive across country because I’m a network guy, relationships. I’m like, “If I go to Fightertown USA, Miramar, and meet some naval aviators, they’ll take me right in, right? [0:00] [1:07] So I get in the Chevy, and I drive cross‑country. It took me eight and a half weeks to get there. Remember that. That’s important. So I show up at the gates. And right before, well, I think I’m getting in, but they’re about to arrest me, this naval aviator walks out and goes, “What are you doing here?” [0:00] [1:22] I said, “I want to be an aviator. He goes, “Why?” I said, “‘Cause I saw Top Gun. I’m ready to go. And he’s like, “Well, you know, I, there’s so much involved.” I said, “I even have a call sign.” And he goes. “What’s your call sign?” I said, traffic violations.” I could picture it on my helmet, right? [0:00] [1:40] And he just looked at me, he goes, “If you’re reckless and fast down here, you really don’t want to be up there.” And I kind of shrugged my head and I said, “Well, it’s not really ’cause of fast.” [0:00] [1:51] “If I go 39 miles an hour, one mile over 30 and I get carsick. And if I get to a bridge that’s over 11′ 4″, I get a little woozy. So I had to push my car across the bridge. So the traffic violations are more for impeding traffic.” [0:00] [2:07] And this naval aviator put his hand on my shoulder, he goes, “You know what? We all have our place in the world. Some of us are up there flying. For you, have you ever heard of the pipeline business, where pipes are at or below ground level and the backhoes go, ready, one mile an hour?” [0:00]
James: [2:22] Here we go. [0:00]
Jim: [2:24] And sent me on my path. I looked down and I saw his name and it said Smith. And I’m like, “Sir, I appreciate the guidance. Best of luck to you.” And away we went. True story or not, gentlemen? What… [0:00]
James: [2:36] That took a long… [0:00] [0:00] [
Jim: [2:36] laughs] [0:00]
James: [2:37] That was a long one, man. It took me a while to get there, but I got there, I got there. [0:00]
Jim: [2:41] All right. [0:00]
James: [2:42] John, I apologize for having to loop through that as your first moments on the show. But there’s no other way to start. [0:00]
Jon Smith: [2:48] No, that’s okay. Actually, Jim, sometime with the trade stories, I spent some time in Fightertown, so… [0:00]
James: [2:53] Look at that. [0:00]
Jon: [2:54] So yeah, it’s, it’s a common, it’s a common background there. So yeah. [0:00] [0:00] [
James: [2:58] laughs] [0:00]
Jon: [2:58] No, pleasure to be here. Really glad to meet you guys. [0:00]
James: [3:00] Yeah, John, good morning, and thank you for joining the show. We’re excited to have you. And Jim’s just going to dive in because that’s what Jim does. [laughs] [0:00]
Jim: [3:09] Yeah. Well, you know, you have the American flag behind you. I do see some fighter jets. John, you know, let’s, let’s get to know each other, if you’d tell us a little bit about your history, how you got here? [0:00] [3:20] And then let’s dive into Hydromax USA and what’s new in your world. Let’s dive right in, sir. [0:00]
Jon: [3:26] Sure. No, good morning. No, just a little bit about me, you know, I, I think we talked about little bit. You know, married with three children. You know, here most recently but started out in the, in the Navy. Started out at Miramar, so spent some time there for a few years, there, in my own life, but spent 21 years in the Navy. [0:00] [3:45] Came out of that with some great leadership, great people, and teams that I was, I was able to work with. Out of that, I came into the auto industry. [0:00] [3:53] A little bit different, not directly into the, into the energy industry, but in the Auto industry, and, you know, got the chance to work with everybody from Ford down to some of the tier 1s in the auto industry and manufacturing. [0:00] [4:07] And then I transitioned over to energy. Started getting into the measurement and transition, transmission side and working on that buried infrastructure, working on the metering, and how we were measuring both, you know, upstream and downstream. [0:00] [4:23] And a lot in safety, always about safety throughout my career. I think there’s two common things throughout, you know, whether it be the military or the auto industry or in the energy, it was about safety and leadership. It was always about where I came from in this, in this industry. [0:00] [4:39] And, you know, had the opportunity to come over and lead the team here at Hydromax USA. And, you know, it’s a, it’s amazing how much things have changed. [0:00] [4:49] I took, I came on board in February 2020, about one month before everything shut down. [0:00]
James: [4:55] Wow. [0:00]
Jon: [4:56] And so I got about, as I say, I got about three weeks of being a normal CEO, whatever that was before. And, really, we had to pivot and do some things, you know, through some really uncertain times. [0:00] [5:08] But hats off to the team. I mean, we’ve got over 600 people now. I mean, you talk about what, how things have changed, and we’re in over 40 states. And we wound up actually growing near the end of last year. A lot of it just because our teams were so committed to that safety. [0:00] [5:26] We did the right things. We work side‑by‑side with the utility industry and the gas distribution networks. And you know, we really had, had a couple of callings. [0:00] [5:36] Number one was safety. But the second thing was to keep energy and water flowing to people while they were in their homes. And while, you know, while everybody’s kind of getting redistrict, redistributed, I guess, distributed… [0:00]
James: [5:49] Distributed. [0:00]
Jon: [5:49] …throughout [inaudible]. Yeah, that’s a tough word to say sometimes. [0:00] [5:54] But, you know, what we do at Hydromax is we deal with that buried infrastructure. So if you look at where our teams are, what we’re doing is we’re mapping, we’re locating, and we’re really checking condition of those, of that buried infrastructure. [0:00] [6:13] And that’s how the company was founded back in 2003. It was founded in the trenches, going in, doing condition, assessments, looking for hazards, you know, through horizontal drilling, whatever it may be. That, you know, people, people know, don’t know what they don’t know. [0:00] [6:29] So when we’re installing new lines, we’re installing new fiber optics, electrification’s moving underground, the accuracy of the maps has to be there. And, unfortunately, as you’ve run across probably, it, it isn’t there. [0:00] [6:44] Many places, we don’t know where they are were, plus or minus six feet sometimes. And, heaven forbid, you know, there’s a, there’s an incident where a backhoe or somebody accidentally, you know, breaches one of these lines, now it’s figuring out how do you turn it off? [0:00] [7:00] Where’s the valve? Where do you go to turn off the energy or turn off the gas? You know, did somebody do something and nick a water line and now you have contamination in the water line? [0:00] [7:11] These are the types of things that our company was really founded around identifying and helping our customer to either prevent it or to figure out how to fix it. [0:00] [7:22] And for me, this has been a passion. When I got the opportunity to come over to Hydromax, this was an open space to me. I’ve seen it for my, for my 12‑plus years in the ener‑, in the energy industry. Just that ability to know where you are and be able to prevent or, you know, ensure the public safety is just key to everything we do. [0:00] [7:45] But I think the biggest thing that’s changed in Hydromax over the last few years, though, is technology. It’s the ability to be there. [0:00] [7:52] And now, you know, our applications and when our teams are in the field, you know, we’ve got sub‑foot accuracy when, when our teams are out in the field. And we can locate on three axes, you know, where a pipe is in the ground using our technology. [0:00] [8:09] The ability to manage that and then make it readily available to a, whether it be a municipality or a large gas distribution company, is just tremendous today. You look, you look at today versus five years ago, what we’re doing… [0:00]
James: [8:24] Not even close. [0:00]
Jon: [8:24] …what we’re doing now is, has just change totally. And it’s going to change even more as we go forward. [0:00]
James: [8:28] It really is. Jon, I’m a, I’m a data guy. I’m going to be honest. We talked about it in the pre‑show, but I’m a, I’m a technology nerd from back in the day. I spent 15, 20 years in that industry before move, the last five here in the natural gas world. [0:00] [8:48] But for those that maybe don’t understand really where you’re at in regards to when you’re talking about data and how important it is, can you kind of help people understand where the real value is in this data? [0:00] [9:04] And then, secondly, like, what’s the future of data, at least from Hydromax standpoint? [0:00]
Jon: [9:10] Oh, the future’s exciting. So I’m at the put that off, as, like, you mention the future, and I’m usually going to get going. [0:00]
James: [9:15] I know. I know. I got excited, too, when I looked at it. But… [0:00] [0:00] [
Jon: [9:18] laughs] [0:00]
James: [9:18] Yeah, tell us a little bit about that value. [0:00]
Jon: [9:20] Oh yeah. The value of that data, it really comes down into so many ways. You know, right now, with safety, again, I keep going back to safety, but whatever you’re do in natural gas, you’ve got to be, you’ve got to be focused on that. If you’re not, you’re just not, you’re not doing the relevant things. [0:00] [9:36] And so safety, number one, is, is I’d say our mission. But you know, the other part of that is now, and I think what’s growing, and this kind of transitions if you, is this ESG, this environmental aspect of it. [0:00] [9:50] You know, you look at now, how we’re looking at viable, how is the energy future of the country really going to, going to look? I’m a big believer, and I don’t think it’s going to be one thing. I think it’s going to be a mesh of things. [0:00]
James: [10:01] Right. [0:00]
Jon: [10:02] And I think everything’s going to have its own place. But natural gas, we’re talking about hydrogen introduction possibly into the gas lines. We’re talking about just using natural gas in different ways. [0:00] [10:13] All of that, the integrity of the system, knowing where those, those, you know, transmission lines are, and then being able to either, A, avoid them, or at least navigate them if you’re installing, you know, new subsurface electrification, fiber optic, whatever you’re doing. [0:00] [10:31] That’s the value in the data. It’s really about how do we not breach this, this infrastructure we’ve got, you know, these, these hundreds of thousands of miles of transmission pipe? And then, in the future, here’s the really exciting thing for me is and where Hydromax is a little different from the rest. [0:00] [10:49] We have about, because we’ve been in this about 20‑plus years, we’ve got about three times the amount of data stored, and in the cloud, that, than anyone else really the industry does. [0:00] [11:00] What that enables us to do is we’re now creating AI models. And so we’re running AI machine learning that can go in and tell us where high‑risk probability is. [0:00] [11:12] We’ve got risk modeling now that we go in. And, you know, think about, think about the task of a, let’s say, a gas distribution company that hasn’t had a cross‑work program or a leak program before. [0:00] [11:24] If you don’t know where to start, you’ve got a pretty daunting task ’cause you’ve probably got about 40‑plus years worth of work to map it all out or to check it all out. [0:00] [11:31] But if you can run a risk model that uses AI and is, and is accurate, because you’ve got more data that’s learned from, your able to start and in really the high‑risk areas and know that you’re really tackling those areas that could cause disruption to, to a community. [0:00]
James: [11:48] We’ve heard, we’ve heard that a lot. Jim, if you remember, going back, who was on, Stuart Saulters from… [0:00]
Jim: [11:54] APGA. [0:00] [0:00] …
James: [11:55] APGA… [0:00]
Jim: [11:56] Yep. [0:00] [0:00] …
James: [11:56] was talking about, you know, the hyd‑,, when we start, is it possible to put hydrogen in? Absolutely. Is there a lot of work we have to do? Absolutely, right? [0:00]
Jim: [12:05] Yeah, yep. [0:00]
James: [12:05] You were talking about data there and what we’re going to use. And then Garry Hynes talked about it on the last one with… [0:00]
Jim: [12:11] Well, in… [0:00] [0:00] …
James: [12:12] line inspection, you know, and machine learning and AI… [0:00]
Jim: [12:15] Yep, yep. [0:00]
James: [12:16] …and that world. [0:00]
Jim: [12:17] Yep. [0:00]
James: [12:17] Man, it’s crazy, to, Jon, you said it, five years, really, to go back. I’ve been in it five years, and I’ve seen it. You know, I didn’t walk into a world that we’re, already, you know, big data was really being exploited. [0:00]
Jim: [12:31] Yep. [0:00]
James: [12:32] Not exploited, utilized, that sounds a lot better. [0:00]
Jim: [12:36] Yep. [0:00]
James: [12:36] So that’s really exciting. I was checking out the Hydromax website. And I, I was looking at the AI stuff this morning, because I’m a nerd, and was kind of geeking out on that, telling Jim about it. [0:00] [12:48] But that’s super exciting for me, personally. [0:00]
Jon: [12:51] Yeah. Yeah, no. And sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you. But, you know, two things you just said that are really kind of came out. [0:00] [12:56] Number one is one of the things that came to us during the pandemic and one of the reasons I think that this, our company’s flexibility. And we were founded around innovation, so we believed innovation and keeping things going. [0:00] [13:09] You know, one of the things we helped a couple of our customers do was transition. A lot of these, a lot of companies are still using paper records. [0:00]
James: [13:16] Sure. [0:00]
Jon: [13:16] Well, that became a safety issue during COVID. We literally had a couple of customers that had to keep their paper maps in rooms for three weeks in Ziploc bags before they could even look at them. [0:00] [13:27] But that transition to data and being able to do it, you know, through technology eliminates that. And the more you can do that, the better it is. [0:00] [13:38] I want to go back. You were talking about hydrogen for a second. Why I get really excited about natural gas is I think hydrogen does keep natural gas relevant. I think it does provide an interesting opportunity for us in the future. [0:00] [13:50] But think about it. Hydrogen’s a smaller molecule by about four times, I believe, than the natural gas. If you’ve got a permeation or a leak that’s natural gas or you’re going to have possibly new permeations, you’ve got to know where those are. [0:00] [14:04] So one of the ways the industry, I think, is looking at right now, and Hydromax is kind of leading that, is how do we detect that? How do we look for, you know, hydrogen isn’t going to be, you know, odorized like natural gas, how do we detect that? [0:00] [14:18] And how do we use that to keep people safe when we do start doing that? Because I think it’s a, I don’t think it’s a matter of if. I think it’s going to be a matter of when. [0:00]
James: [14:25] Yep. [0:00]
Jim: [14:28] Really interesting. And I have to tell you, Jon, the two subjects or topics that you really hit on that I’ve heard so far and listen and embrace, if you know me, I embrace it, safety person foremost. I always end our show by saying stay safe. And I mean it. And then… [0:00] [[14:45] crosstalk] [0:00]
James: [14:45] Our, our vision is to make the world a safer place to work. [0:00]
Jon: [14:48] Yep. [0:00]
Jim: [14:48] It is our company vision. Absolutely. And we talked about environmental concerns, too. And, you know, whether you’re a homeowner or a business owner or technician or whatever, it all comes together. [0:00] [15:02] And I was just thinking here. We’re a micro example, the three of us building a network together and how we’re going to utilize each other not just today but going forward as helps in resources. [0:00] [15:13] And it makes me think of Hydromax kind of in the middle, helping, you mentioned, municipalities, you mentioned others. You want to just share a little bit, because you’re doing a lot more than just providing services. You, you folks are really, you know, you have a mission and you are giving value. [0:00] [15:30] And to, in my mind, really spread throughout and putting a lot of the business borders to the side but saying, hey, safety’s first. So we want to make sure you’re safe even if you’re with another company or this, that. Am I speaking out of turn? Or am I hitting on the right cylinders there? [0:00]
Jon: [15:47] Absolutely. No, you’re 100 percent correct on that. You know, we, we are, you know, our foundation has been in safety. And as we look at what really our mission going forward is, is really to help, you know, help the gas industry, help all these industries to reach their goals. [0:00] [16:05] And, you know, what we’re hearing more and more is, you know, especially this year, and I think this year we’ve seen a real pivot in the industry, where now we’re seeing board‑directed initiatives, where companies are going to be setting aside funds in the future. [0:00] [16:21] The best part about it is is that we’ve got, you know, I would say, customers and non‑customers, just industry. We’re, we’re all getting together and saying what’s possible? [0:00]
Jim: [16:31] Yep. [0:00]
Jon: [16:32] You know, I mean, we’ve literally got some, some meetings coming up with specific companies that it’s, I kind of go back. I lived in Italy for four years. [0:00] [16:41] So, you know, they used to talk about throwing spaghetti at the wall to see if it was done. We’re literally, as an industry right now, and I think it’s great, throwing spaghetti at the wall, because we’re trying to see what sticks. And asking what’s possible and not just, well, what am I comfortable with? [0:00] [16:58] We’re getting out of our comfort zone as an industry. And I think that’s going to be the real player going forward, is if you can get uncomfortable and try new things, which, which, James, goes back to technology, which has been a, which, you know, in the utility world is kind of a slow adopter of that… [0:00]
James: [17:17] No doubt. [0:00] [[17:18] crosstalk] [0:00]
Jon: [17:18] …sped things up. Just like when I go back to my comment about going from paper to digital… [0:00]
Jim: [17:22] Yep. [0:00] [0:00] …
Jon: [17:23] that’s sped up out of necessity. I think we’re at a time of necessity for this industry to really take off technology‑wise. [0:00]
James: [17:31] Yeah. [0:00]
Jim: [17:31] Yeah. [0:00]
James: [17:32] I believe you are correct, sir. I’ve, we’ve talked, we’ve had a lot of guests on, and we’ve driven this point home, too. I think our industry is very unique. And then, you know, coming from other industries, like you, Jon, and seeing it, I believe it is. [0:00] [17:49] And, and here lately, and for a really long time, too, there’s been fantastic people sitting at tables figuring these things out and, and our futures. And we try to be advocates to get people connected and involved in, you know, our associations and, and different… [0:00]
Jim: [18:09] Communities, yep. [0:00]
James: [18:10] But, man, there is a group that, I promise you, there are groups out there working on these things, like Jon and like ourselves. [0:00] [18:19] And it’s an exciting time because I think adoption is there. And I think we’re seeing the momentum for the first time because we’re seeing the results for the first time of some of these bigger companies, you know, getting uncomfortable, like you said. [0:00] [18:34] And, Jim, does that sound familiar? Does that sound like Coleman Sterling, or what? [0:00]
Jim: [18:37] It absolutely… [0:00]
James: [18:39] If you’re not scaring yourself, you’re not doing anything worth doing, so. [0:00]
Jim: [18:42] Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. [0:00]
James: [18:43] Man… [0:00]
Jim: [18:43] Push yourself to the limit… [0:00]
James: [18:44] It’s awesome. [0:00]
Jim: [18:46] Every day. If you have goals that are in mind, i.e., safety, and all the good things, it’s wonderful to be in that role. James, do you mind if I take home one final question. [0:00]
James: [18:56] Please. Do it. [0:00]
Jim: [18:56] Jon? [0:00]
James: [18:57] Let’s do it. [0:00]
Jim: [18:58] Jon, this is the most difficult question, I think, you’re going to have all day. Maybe, maybe not. [0:00]
Jon: [19:02] OK. [0:00]
Jim: [19:03] Jon, do you love what you do? [0:00]
Jon: [19:06] Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, the greatest part about being, you know, and people talk about being a CEO and other things, you know. But I love the idea that as a CEO, I can make an impactful change on people’s lives. [0:00]
Jim: [19:20] Yep. [0:00]
Jon: [19:21] You know, I would love, personally, I would love to be a young engineer or someone coming on board in this industry right now. Because I think it’s going to be a fantastic industry. [0:00]
James: [19:30] Right. [0:00]
Jon: [19:31] And, you know, as we bring more and more people on board within Hydromax, the ability to, to just provide a positive experience, change, and, and, you know, change an industry and change the world, love it. [0:00]
James: [19:44] Jon, there’s one small part of that that I just want to unpack, if we have… [0:00]
Jon: [19:48] Yep. [0:00] [0:00] …
James: [19:48] just another second. [0:00]
Jim: [19:49] Good. [0:00]
James: [19:49] And I think one of the exciting parts about, you know, the utility industry and others really diving into technology to the degree that other industries have for a long time, is that there’s so much excitement there that we’re going to get an influx of technology folks, system engineerings and DevOps and everyone. [0:00] [20:11] And they’re going to, they’re already here, but I’m saying other companies are going to jump on board as well. And that’s when we’re going to see an absolute explosion as one in a good way. Gosh, I mean, there’s gonna be… [0:00]
Jon: [20:22] Yeah. [0:00] [[20:23] crosstalk] [0:00] [0:00] …
James: [20:23] for that. [0:00]
Jon: [20:23] Yeah. I mean… [0:00] [0:00] :
James: [20:24] I mean a, a launch from… [0:00]
Jon: [20:27] Yeah. [0:00] [0:00] …
James: [20:27] a technology standpoint, it’s going to be amazing. [0:00] [0:00] :
Jon: [20:29] Yeah. And the ideas and that that keep coming in. I mean, hey, look, we’re, we’re hiring right now across basically about, about 15 states right now. [0:00]
James: [20:37] Yeah. [0:00]
Jon: [20:37] And we’re hiring even in our technology field. You know, it’s a great time. And like I said, I wish I could be on that entry level with a lot of these young, you know, bright people who are coming in with new ideas. ‘Cause they’re going to, they’re going to lead it. They’re going to lead it in the future. [0:00]
James: [20:53] No doubt. [0:00]
Jon: [20:54] Yeah. [0:00]
Jim: [20:54] Yep. [0:00]
James: [20:55] Wow. [0:00]
Jim: [20:56] Jon, thank you for joining us today. I, it has been an absolute pleasure, one, to get to know you as a friend, to have you as a friend in the industry, to have Hydromax USA as a friend of ours in the industry. We’ve learned so much. [0:00] [21:08] Special thanks to your team, too, because some of that little wacky story at the beginning with Top Gun… [0:00] [0:00] [
Jon: [21:13] laughs] [0:00]
Jim: [21:13] I may have had an insider tip on that one, just so you know. [0:00]
Jon: [21:16] Gotcha. [laughs] [0:00]
James: [21:17] It felt like Jon knew the moment, you know… [0:00]
Jon: [21:19] Yeah, yeah. [0:00] [0:00] …
James: [21:20] you made. [0:00]
Jon: [21:21] Yeah. [0:00]
James: [21:21] Who told you? [0:00]
Jim: [21:21] Yeah. Well, they said, you know, they said you like to have fun. And I said is he going to be all right with that? And they were like, absolutely. He’ll have a lot of fun with it. [0:00] [21:28] And again, we want to thank you for your service to our country. [0:00]
Jon: [21:30] Thanks, but the one thing, one thing I haven’t told them, I know that isn’t the reason. I knew it was because I never told anybody my callsign. That’s, that’s classified, sorry. [laughs] [0:00]
James: [21:39] Classified. [0:00]
Jim: [21:39] But it wasn’t, wasn’t traffic violation? [0:00]
Jon: [21:42] No, no. [0:00]
Jim: [21:43] OK. [0:00] [0:00] [
Jon: [21:44] laughs] [0:00]
Jim: [21:45] That sounds good. [0:00]
Jon: [21:46] OK. [0:00]
Jim: [21:46] Jon, again, thank you for joining us today. It’s been our absolute pleasure. Audience members, please follow Hydromax USA, connect with them, look at their website, connect with Jon. Get involved, learn what they do, see how it can make your world better, safer, and more environmentally correct. Is the right term, James. [0:00]
James: [22:06] Sure. [0:00]
Jim: [22:07] We’re just going to go with it for now. [0:00] [0:00] [
Jon: [22:08] laughs] [0:00]
Jim: [22:09] Again, Jon, thank you. Until next week on Coffee with Jim & James, it has been our absolute pleasure. Please follow us, please hit the like buttons, wherever those are for the podcast viewers. [0:00] [22:19] And until next week, as I always say, please stay safe and have a great week. Take care, everybody. [0:00]
Jon: [22:26] Thanks a lot. [0:00]
James: [22:26] Thanks a lot, Jon. [0:00]
Jon: [22:27] Thank you. [0:00] [[22:28] background music] [0:00]