Thursday, Aug 13- This episode features APGA’s own, Erin Kurilla. Erin is passionate about natural gas and pipeline safety and she shares some of the goals and vision of APGA.
Quick Links:
Episode Transcript:
Troy Hudson: [0:00] Ladies and gentlemen boys and girls of all ages welcome to the most amazing interview show on the information superhighway. Now zooming to you live and simultaneously from two secret studio bunkers in dual time zones located somewhere south of Alaska east of Area 51 north of Guantanamo.
[0:19] And if we give you one more clue we’ll all be in deep trouble. It’s the amazing twin namesakes separated at birth the two most famous guys, not in witness protection. It’s “Coffee with Jim & James.”
[[0:32] applause]
[0:00] :
Jim Schauer: [0:38] Good morning, LinkedIn community. Welcome to another episode of Coffee with Jim & James. Well, if you know me again, you might notice that I’m back in my uniform which is a little bit peculiar given the state of the everything going on lately.
[0:53] But today is a very special reason I have this back on. So if you see me at conferences, this is what I normally wear our guest today who James is going to introduce in a second. We’ve known her for years have much respect. A lot of praise a lot of great things she does for our industry.
[1:13] So out of that respect. I thought I would put on the uniform again and…
[0:00] :
James Cross: [1:18] Me too, Jimmy. You know me. I’ve been wearing a hoodie for six months. I think.
[0:00] :
Jim: [1:22] I noticed that James so…
[0:00] :
James: [1:24] I even cut my hair.
[0:00] : [Erin Kurilla: [1:26] laughs]
[0:00] :
Jim: [1:27] That means you shaved your head not cut your hair but that’s semantics so James, how are you doing today? And would you please give us the honor of introducing our esteemed guest today?
[0:00] :
James: [1:39] Absolutely. I’m doing awesome, all things considered. I’m blessed blessed to be busy is what I keep saying to people. I think that’s our new hashtag.
[1:50] And thank you Erin. You have no idea how happy I am that you’re on because that means Jim’s all squared away and acting you know, he’s not acting out which is always a good sign.
[2:03] But I would be honored to introduce Miss Erin Kurilla. Erin is the VP of Operations and Pipeline Safety at APGA and a longtime friend of ours as well. Erin, I don’t know if you remember. I’m blessed with a memory.
[0:00] : [
Erin: [2:21] laughs]
[0:00] :
James: [2:22] But we I met you for the first time actually at a Texas Gas Association event. I believe you were speaking at it maybe and then we actually were blessed to have Erin join us at our conference this past year as well at Texas Motor Speedway. So Erin, welcome to the show.
[0:00] :
Erin: [2:42] Thanks so much for having me. I’m glad to be here. I’m honored to be invited to join you guys for coffee.
[0:00] :
James: [2:48] She doesn’t know obviously you haven’t watched…
[[2:50] laughter]
[0:00] :
James: [2:51] Honored is not a word anybody has used yet, but we are very very thrilled that you’re here and joining us today.
[0:00] :
Erin: [3:00] Thank you so much.
[0:00] :
Jim: [3:02] Yeah, it’s great. I actually have gotten a chance to hear you speak about the APGA and other things and I think probably that’s probably a good starting point. Why don’t you give us a little insight into the APGA and public gas systems and such like that and just give our viewers a little bit of the overall of that.
[0:00] :
Erin: [3:23] Sure. Thanks so much for having me. Again. The American Public Gas Association who I’ve been with now right at three years, believe it or not. Time is really an interesting measure of things these days.
[3:37] But I joined them about three years ago, and we represent publicly‑owned gas utility systems of which people are surprised to learn there’s over 1,000 in the country and I like to say that although 750 of the 1,000 are APGA members. We really represent all 1,000, right?
[3:58] And a little known fact that I wanted to just kind of put a plug‑in in while talking to you guys is for any public gas system that’s less than has than 500 customers. We just grant them APGA membership for free.
[0:00] :
James: [4:12] Oh wow.
[0:00] :
Erin: [4:13] And…
[0:00] :
Jim: [4:14] Wait, whoa, wait a minute. I’m sorry. Let’s let’s say that again.
[0:00] :
Erin: [4:16] We give something away for free. [laughs] No, I mean it’s really important to us. We know that those, you know, frankly super small systems out there, you know don’t necessarily have the resources to join even a regional or local trade association.
[4:32] But so much of what we do and so much of the information we disseminate we think is really important to push out to those guys. So if you have less than five of you’re a public gas system with less than 500 customers, you’re actually an APGA member whether you wrote us a check or not.
[4:49] And again, that’s just to get you guys our publications and to make sure that you’re abreast of all the different pipeline safety issues that are going on and all the different things happening up on Capitol Hill that you might be interested in.
[5:03] So that’s APGA. We represent public gas systems. Really we work very very closely with AGA kind of our sister trade association that represents investor‑owned utilities and especially on the pipeline safety front. I think I love you know, I came from AGA, which maybe it’s a little bit but so did my predecessor right?
[5:24] John Erickson actually came from AGA over to APGA in the ’90s. So we have a long history together working together on advocacy issues. And so I’m really glad to be able to kind of carry that legacy forward and work with who I used to work with when I was over at AGA.
[5:44] And then when I think about yeah, Jim or James, do you think…
[0:00] :
Jim: [5:49] No no go keep going. I’ll ask it in a second. Keep going. You’re good.
[0:00] :
Erin: [5:52] OK. Well, I guess some people will kind of wonder I guess what the difference is with a publicly owned gas system and an investor‑owned and the average public gas system actually only has 25 employees. So we’re significantly smaller than the average investor‑owned.
[6:11] And the reason for that is that when after World War II, when a lot of the nation’s kind of pipeline infrastructure and backbone were being built investor‑owned utilities. Frankly didn’t see the return on investment and to going into some more of the rural communities, especially through the southeast.
[6:29] So if you kind of think about the Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi kind of corridor as they were building pipelines down to the Gulf or from the Gulf, excuse me, up north it wasn’t that long ago that we started going from north to south.
[[6:46] laughter]
[0:00] :
Erin: [6:47] But back then we were going south to north these communities decided that they wanted access to natural gas. They wanted to bring gas to their community.
[6:55] And even though the investor owns, you know, frankly that they represent their shareholders, right? They didn’t see that return on investment the community decided to go ahead and build the infrastructure themselves.
[7:05] So that’s part of what that legacy is what it’s really at the culture of APGA’s membership the kind of can‑do serving the community is really at the core of the culture around APGA and that kind of familial attitude really just kind of resonates and still exists in 2020 today.
[7:27] And it makes it really a fun group to work with a really a lot of pride in their system and in what they do for their community.
[0:00] :
James: [7:36] Erin…
[0:00] :
Jim: [7:37] I was just, oh, I’m sorry.
[0:00] :
James: [7:39] Go, Jim.
[0:00] :
Jim: [7:40] Just a quick question. You mentioned a lot, and I didn’t mean to interrupt you before but you were hitting on some are 25 50 people, you know smaller and these. Are some of these and we call them and correct me if I’m wrong, but I call him munis or municipality, an acceptable term?
[0:00] :
Erin: [7:57] Sure sure. Yeah, I mean a lot of people use that synonymously we try to say publicly owned just because that comes in all sorts of shapes and forms, some are you know multiple counties and utility boards. We see that a lot in states like Tennessee.
[8:13] We we have a couple cooperative members as well because technically they’re still publicly owned utilities. So yeah, munis counties utility boards, like they’re all kind of in our bucket if you will.
[0:00] :
Jim: [8:26] And some get big, too. I mean…
[0:00] :
Erin: [8:28] Yeah.
[0:00] : …
Jim: [8:29] like we have friends at Sevier County in Tennessee and they’re, you know, the Sevier County folks and…
Erin: [8:35] : Yes. Yeah, shout‑out to Matt. Hey. [laughs]
[0:00] :
Jim: [8:37] Yep.
[[8:38] crosstalk]
[0:00] :
Erin: [8:41] Yeah, I mean so some of our biggest members that people might not realize are publicly owned are places like Philadelphia Memphis, Tennessee, Colorado Springs, Long Beach out in California are all publicly owned gas utility.
[8:55] So the parallel. I like to give people is that like at least in where I live in Vienna, Virginia are public we have publicly owned water, right? So you have a municipally owned water system. Very common, right you can just kind of translate that to a publicly owned gas utility as well.
[9:12] And some cities and localities have everything. You know water wastewater electric gas broadband, you know, all of it is a publicly owned utility.
[0:00] :
Jim: [9:23] Interesting.
[0:00] :
James: [9:25] We service a lot of the same industry, obviously so that rings true. Erin, one thing that I’ve always been impressed with you about is really your passion for what you do.
[9:41] You mentioned something at our conference and you kind of went in full out like you just geeked out on some I mean you really did in a good way right?
[9:52] I’m a nerd man. I’m I’m the first one. I’m in the day in the data and I’m going through things but you kind of went on a tangent in one of our panels. And one thing that kind of rang from it was your passion for what you do.
[10:05] So you spoke a little bit about AGA and how you know, you made the transition to the public side. Tell us a little bit about that passion and how it drove you really from from going to school all the way to where you landed.
[10:19] Sometimes I don’t know if it’s just me. Sometimes I look around and go I never thought I would be doing this, especially today…
[0:00] :
Erin: [10:26] Yeah.
[0:00] :
James: [10:26] Right? I look around and go. I didn’t really foresee this. But man, I feel like I’m home.
[0:00] :
Erin: [10:34] Sure well I guess I’ll give people a little bit of my bio. I went to school for chemical engineering in Pittsburgh.
[10:44] And when I graduated and actually while I started interning in the summer there as a chemical engineering intern I decided to get a job with the local gas company, which was Equitable Gas and actually worked in their midstream department.
[10:58] And they’re now known as EQT and really kind of just happened to be working in an industry that was booming with Marcellus Shale. Just really at the forefront of that and fell in love.
[11:10] I think I just enjoy people I the most and I enjoy getting to know folks and I enjoy learning from folks that have come before me and I think that what really resonates with me is the fact that the gas the gas industry as a whole and especially the gas utility industry is we all work together.
[11:32] And it’s not a super competitive like environment, you know, we all have the same goals and I think I really stuck with pipeline safety because nothing is more true than everybody pushing towards the same goal. And when we all want to keep the gas in the pipe, then it’s so easy to get passionate about that. Right?
[11:53] It’s so easy to kind of lay your head on your pillow at night and go to sleep feeling good that you’ve really tried to make the communities safer. And that’s why I think even taking all that passion and then bring it to the a community‑owned membership. It’s easy for me, right?
[12:12] It’s easy to kind of say hey, I help people make sure that they operate safely like who doesn’t want to do that day in and day out. I guess?
[0:00] :
James: [12:20] That’s our vision as a company right is on the EWN side our vision is to make the world a safer place to work. So we agree.
[0:00] :
Jim: [12:30] Wholeheartedly.
[0:00] :
James: [12:31] Jim you just saw Erin give a presentation recently and what a segue and she’s so she’s such a professional segued right into PSMS like like a pro.
[0:00] :
Jim: [12:45] Yeah.
[0:00] : [
Erin: [12:45] laughs]
[0:00] :
James: [12:46] I hope it’s not a Coffee with Jim & Erin after this.
[0:00] : [
Erin: [12:50] laughs]
[0:00] :
James: [12:50] But Jim do you want to talk a little bit about that presentation and…
[0:00] :
Jim: [12:57] Yeah, you know I wanted to hand it off to Erin in a second, but recently at the, Louisiana Gas Association 192 to 195 pipeline safety, I’ll call it Summit Conference. It’s a huge conference for years and this is the first virtual one they’ve done.
[13:13] And I had the pleasure of sitting in on Erin’s presentation on PSMS. I have to tell you Erin you knocked it out of the park you again like you’re doing here. You’re such a great presenter.
[13:26] But what James was talking about before was the passion that you had when you were speaking to it. It was just ripped us in and what’s your thoughts on PSMS. It’s such a buzzword right now.
[0:00] :
Erin: [13:37] I know.
[0:00] :
Jim: [13:38] What’s what’s your feel insight? What’s your guidance for other people out in the industry?
[0:00] :
Erin: [13:44] Yeah, you know full disclosure right full disclosure to your wide audience. You know, I was one of the folks when I first heard about it, I kind of sighed if you will and wondered, you know really can this work.
[13:58] And I it’s taken, you know as pipeline safety management systems has really been talked about in our industry now believe it or not almost a decade right since 2010.
[0:00] :
James: [14:08] Yeah, right. Almost a decade.
[0:00] :
Erin: [14:08] And even you know before that in various ways shapes and forms, but it’s still new right?
[14:14] Like there’s still people we’re all on this kind of journey to use the safety management system term of kind of accepting it and embracing it and figuring out what it means for each of us individually not just for everyone at their systems and at their companies and utilities.
[14:32] Because I think it’s not just gas utilities right like we all can kind of take those safety management principles and apply them to what we do at work. And even frankly what we do at home.
[14:43] You know, I think that one of the important things is, you know, I appreciate what you said about the presentation with Louisiana Gas Association and their pipeline safety conference.
[14:53] And I really hope that at least I would say I just want one person [laughs] to get something out of each of these presentations and if I can do that then it was totally worth the time.
[15:05] And I you know, I unfortunately we’re really kind of at that point in the safety management systems conversation where there’s potential for this to not be volunteer, like right now it’s voluntary, right? And right now everyone can figure out what it means for them and they can apply it in a way that that’s helpful and useful.
[15:26] And we’re really at that kind of tipping point and I just hope that folks kind of see the benefit of safety management and aren’t scared by it because I really do think it is. It can be helpful as soon as it becomes voluntary.
[15:40] It’s no longer about what you think of safety and what your culture is at your organization. And it becomes like did I create a plan and did I check all the boxes and…
[0:00] :
Jim: [15:49] Right.
[0:00] :
Erin: [15:50] I go yeah my goal is, you know, not just for APGA but for any, you know pipeline operator that’s listing or frankly even contractors that work for them. Is that hey, if you can start to do this now we can kind of hedge off that idea of it becoming a requirement because I do think if it becomes a requirement, it loses its luster and it just doesn’t work the way it was intended so…
[0:00] :
James: [16:11] Yeah, we moved from a proactive environment into a reactive, you know, prescriptive type of environment and…
[0:00] :
Erin: [16:18] Right.
[0:00] :
James: [16:19] You nailed it with checking the box, you know.
[0:00] :
Erin: [16:22] Yeah. Yeah.
[0:00] :
James: [16:23] And I’m not going to trash operator qualification. Obviously, there’s a place and it’s done wonders, but it’s the same thing now we live in a world where it’s like OK what do I gotta do to meet the bare minimum.
[0:00] :
Erin: [16:37] Yeah.
[0:00] :
James: [16:37] And that’s a scary thing to think about when we’re talking about pipeline safety.
[0:00] :
Erin: [16:42] Because do a whole other segment on operator qualification.
[0:00] :
James: [16:46] You know when you when you said that you sighed, you know your first statement, you know, you just kind of real a hm. I don’t know if it’s going to work. I felt like Steve Allen was somewhere crying when he reads when he hears that episode. He’s just going to you know.
[0:00] :
Erin: [17:03] Well, you know it’s honest though. It’s and I think it’s where a lot of people still are, right, you know, we’ve got to get them over sighing and just kind of learning and then embracing.
[0:00] :
Jim: [17:13] And you said one thing at the LGA a presentation that really stuck with me was get started do something you don’t, you know, just take that first step and I think you folks are going to have a survey coming up for your members. I believe is that is that a correct statement?
[0:00] :
Erin: [17:30] Yeah, so a couple things one is you know, we’re trying to help I say create a safe space for the APGA membership to come and learn more and get started. So we have a virtual workshop series its multi‑part. Feel free to check it out on APGA’s website for our membership.
[17:48] But broader than the membership APGA and actually Energy Worldnet partnered what partnered to kind of give a we APGA developed what we call our Gap Analysis Tool for small operators. And what it really did is kind of took all those principles of safety management systems and put them in a multiple choice format.
[18:09] Just I always say it does two things one. It helps people even understand what safety management systems is and like bite‑sized chunks and then two is it really helps them start to understand where they are compared to what the API 1173 recommended practice tells, you know recommends that they do.
[18:28] So you kind of get both and it’s an again a safe place that tool just like the workshop is a safe place. Just do it on your own don’t feel like you need to share it with anyone. And and so we have that.
[18:41] But then I don’t know if this is what you meant, but I’m going to put a plug and say that coming soon every fall the industry does a industry‑wide survey.
[18:52] And it’s just really like have you started have you done the Gap Assessment and stuff? And that really helps drive our everyone up in DC’s conversations around with all the lawmakers and regulators and everyone else about hey, we are doing this voluntary.
[0:00] :
Jim: [19:09] Right.
[0:00] :
Erin: [19:10] So make sure if you’re an operator and you’re watching this watch for that survey. [laughs]
[0:00] :
Jim: [19:15] Well, that sounds good.
[0:00] :
James: [19:16] Erin, obviously, these times are strained. We’re all, I don’t know where you’re at currently really looks like you’re at home.
[0:00] :
Erin: [19:25] I’m at home. [laughs]
[0:00] :
James: [19:26] As a Jim’s at the beach, but I’m also at home. So being thrust into this world what how has that impacted APGA and obviously there’s APGA events and and some I think still coming up. What does that look like? What’s that pivot look like?
[19:46] And I’m going to speak honestly from from I think a lot of people’s perspective is, you know, it’s it’s a hard thing to wrap your brain around on to make this transition, you know, we’re attending events. We’re doing the best we can. I know all of us want to do this in person, but we want to do it safely. So what’s that look like for APGA?
[0:00] :
Erin: [20:10] Yeah, so I think I mentioned earlier how small or small in the sense of number of employees most of our membership has and so we’ve always tried to provide virtual venues for our membership.
[20:24] because we know not everyone can attend an in‑person event not everyone can kind of peel themself away for a two‑ to three‑day event, especially when they’ve got a system to run and they just frankly their bench is not that deep and so we’ve always tried to do that.
[20:39] but we’ve just Kind of I guess I screwed that those bolts down a little bit and said Hey, listen, we really need to provide great virtual content in little bite‑sized chunks. And so kind of like what you guys are doing here. I think it’s important that we remember who we are as an industry, you know so much.
[21:01] I kind of talked about my first experience working in like a midstream company. I was in the field a lot. But the last thing I wanted to do was sit down and watch like and do like a two‑hour training thing and trust me.
[21:14] I know APGA’s member of the last thing they want to do is sit down for like three straight days and watch their computer screen. Like they just no one wants to know must do that. No one wants to sit in a chair for three days nor do they have like the time and the luxury to do that.
[21:30] So we’re trying to find ways to just give people, you know recorded things that they can use and and give it that format so that they can kind of do it at their leisure and not have to dedicate an entire week or an entire day to an event.
[21:51] So yeah, we’re looking for innovative solutions like that and then you know, I personally hear time and I know we talked about this as an industry time and time again about workforce development, right and the fact that we need more ways to get training to individual companies and operators.
[22:10] And that comes in all sorts of forms, right? It’s training on a technical level, but it’s also leadership development training and just you know training for a new engineers, etc.
[22:21] So we hope that we’re trying to record as much as we can especially when we kind of turn to our operations conference in October so that we can build out this library that says hey you got a new engineer or someone new to the industry. That doesn’t know anything.
[22:37] We have a kind of why not use this time to build up this library of online available content that can be used for training purposes later on. So not just think about it as a single event, but think about it across like forever if you will, like…
[0:00] :
James: [22:55] Give it some [inaudible]. Yeah, that’s kind of the cool part about these we’ve realized it to of this time, you know, we’ve been doing webinars and you know, this is a fun thing we do we we laugh with everybody and say really Jim and I started this as therapy, you know?
[0:00] : [
Erin: [23:09] laughs]
[0:00] :
Jim: [23:10] Yeah.
[0:00] :
James: [23:10] So so that [laughs] we had someone to talk to because we’re usually out on the road traveling right?
[0:00] :
Erin: [23:15] Right.
[0:00] :
James: [23:16] But we’ve been offering webinars and things like that and then I mean you’re right being able to capture that and then have a library of things to pull from.
[23:26] We do and you know, we have a large percentage of essential workers obviously across our industry, but there is a lot of I hate to say it this way but almost a captive audience of the ones that are in the office and do need those skills.
[23:44] And so being able to build that library and offer some of that content that they can parse through it almost at their leisure and cherry‑pick the things like you said a lot of what the training we’re seeing now is focused on leadership focused on soft skills.
[24:00] And in the past that might have been something with that would have been overlooked or not done in a traditional instructor‑led training situation.
[0:00] :
Erin: [24:10] Yeah. So we know I’m a I guess I’ll just leave this topic with you know, and try not to take it personally. I guess we know everyone’s super busy not everyone has microphones on their computers not everyone has cameras on their computers and just kind of be gracious with each other right?
[24:30] I think in some ways it’s been kind of I don’t know heartwarming in a way to know that. We’re bonding right? We’re all in this together we all have technical issues and kids and dogs and Amazon deliveries coming to our door and stuff.
[24:47] And it’s just just being gracious with each other and knowing like hey, listen, sometimes duty calls. You can’t be at your computer for the whole session and just kind of trying to roll with it and just don’t take things personally right?
[0:00] :
James: [24:58] I hope I hope my daughter didn’t hear you.
[0:00] : [
Erin: [25:00] laughs]
[0:00] :
James: [25:11] She’ll come sliding in [laughs] again. She’s really good at it. It’s funny that she’s actually not been in an episode yet.
[0:00] : [
Erin: [25:11] laughs]
[0:00] :
Jim: [25:11] I’m surprised.
[0:00] :
James: [25:12] I would expect her…
[0:00] :
Jim: [25:13] Or my dogs, you know, they’ve been running…
[0:00] :
James: [25:15] She’s been at a lot of meetings. I can tell you that sitting on my lap, but you’re right everybody’s been so kind and so gracious and so patient, you know during this.
[25:25] And and how long this continues who knows but I hope that we can keep that up. That’s all that’s an awesome point to make.
[0:00] :
Jim: [25:32] Yeah, and that was almost that was a great, you know, I was going to wrap this up but do you have any other final thoughts, Erin, you want to share with us? That last one was absolutely fantastic. And again for everybody to have that patience. I those words will stick with me because sometimes we lose track of that. So thank you for that.
[25:50] But any final words before we wrap, oh wait James.
[0:00] :
James: [25:52] I’ll answer that, Erin. Don’t answer it. I have the perfect one. And this is a new thing. I really want to work in and I ask it to a lot of people not even in our industry. I mean in general, I may be at the store and run across somebody and have a conversation.
[26:08] But a question I like to ask especially you today, Erin, is do you love what you do?
[0:00] :
Jim: [26:15] Oh.
[0:00] :
Erin: [26:17] I love it. Yeah, I mean I love what I do. I think more I love the people I work with. You know, you can you know paint or whatever if you’re with fun people and you’re with people that encourage you and challenge you and make you want to do your job even better then it is easy to love what you do regardless of what it is, right?
[26:44] So yes, I love what I do. I love what who I do it with even more.
[0:00] :
James: [26:48] I got cold chills. I got cold chills from that.
[[26:52] laughter]
[0:00] :
James: [26:51] I couldn’t agree more I couldn’t agree more.
[0:00] :
Erin: [26:53] Right? You gotta like, I mean…
[0:00] :
James: [26:56] You gotta love it.
[0:00] : [
Erin: [26:57] laughs]
[0:00] :
James: [26:58] We have such great teams.
[0:00] :
Erin: [26:59] Yeah.
[0:00] :
James: [26:59] And that team sometimes as explain expands out into our industry more than even just you know, the close‑knit people that we work with we work with so many people across this industry and sitting committees and boards and you know, all this…
[0:00] :
Erin: [27:16] Right, got to like, you know, you got to like those people.
[0:00] :
James: [27:18] So many great people in our industry.
[0:00] :
Jim: [27:20] I love the industry and I love it for those reasons. It’s it is family to me.
[0:00] :
Erin: [27:25] Yeah.
[0:00] :
Jim: [27:26] And I think that’s a common thread that we all share here.
[0:00] :
James: [27:30] Yep.
[0:00] :
Erin: [27:31] Yeah. Well, thank you.
[0:00] :
James: [27:33] Yeah.
[0:00] :
Jim: [27:33] Absolutely. It was Erin we want to thank you greatly for being on another tremendous episode. This will be the best episode of Coffee with Jim & James all week. I guarantee it.
[0:00] :
Erin: [27:46] All right. [laughs]
[0:00] :
James: [27:47] That’s pretty…
[0:00] :
Jim: [27:48] Thank you. You are a breath of fresh air your you light up the screen your passion for the industry passion for people passion for everything you do just shines through. And on behalf of James, and I we can’t thank you enough for being on here.
[28:01] We want to encourage our listeners and our watchers that if you want to connect with Erin, please do follow the APGA, you know, go to that website follow them. Get some great insight get some great information.
[28:14] And as always if you want to connect with James, and I please do so, and if you have an idea for a Coffee with Jim & James shoot James or I a message, and we would love to talk to you about that.
[28:24] So until next week unless we’re canceled, which I don’t think we’re going to be we’re on a roll. Until next…
[0:00] :
James: [28:30] We have one more week for sure now.
[0:00] :
Jim: [28:33] God bless you. God bless our industry everybody. Please stay safe and have a great week, and we will see you soon.
[0:00] :
Erin: [28:40] Thanks.
[0:00] :
Jim: [28:41] Thanks, Erin. Thanks, Erin.
[0:00] :
James: [28:42] you.